Aniket Jindal, Co-Founder Biconomy chats with Shripati Acharya, Managing Partner Prime Venture Partners.

Listen to the podcast to learn about

01:00 - Aniket’s journey from Binance to Biconomy

07:40 - Finding PMF as a Web3 Startup

15:00 - Why & How of Tokenomics at a Web3 Startup

21:00 - How Biconomy Built Its Community

23:00 - Unsolved Problems in the Web3 space

25:00 - How Web3 Startups Differ From Web2 Startups

Read the complete transcript below

Shripati Acharya 00:45

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Prime Venture Partners Podcast. This is Shripati Acharya, Managing Partner at Prime. Our guest today is Aniket Jindal, Co-Founder of Biconomy, one of the most exciting Web3 startups out there. Welcome to the show, Aniket.

Aniket Jindal 01:00

Thanks a lot for having me. Super excited to be here.

Shripati Acharya 01:05

Absolutely. So let’s start first with your journey to starting Biconomy. I think you have a very interesting background. So tell us about a brief history of your life, if you will, from wherever you want to start, to being a Co-Founder at Biconomy.

Aniket Jindal 01:15

Yeah. So I never planned to be in crypto, but I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, I’d say. But just going back in time, so I graduated in 2015, I did my electrical engineering from PEC Chandigarh. And I come from a family business background, so post that I joined my family business. So I joined my family business, and six months in the business I was like, “Okay, this is probably not for me.” I was definitely not doing a good job at it, and I used to regularly think about what I should do next in my life if I’m not liking it.

Fortunately, at the same time, one of my friends told me that there’s a new Master’s program you should look at. It’s by MIT Sloan and Fudan in Shanghai. And I was like, “Really, Shanghai? You want me to go to Shanghai in China?” But I had been in Hong Kong; I did one of my semesters in Hong Kong, so I was pretty much used to the Chinese culture and also how things work over there.

So yeah, I mean, things were going well and I was like, “Okay, let’s make a bold step.” So I just enrolled in the program and I got a scholarship as well. The program was supposed to be in Shanghai, at Fudan. So I made a bold move, “Okay, let’s go to Shanghai and see what happens there, what is possible. Will I end up doing something there, or maybe I’ll just come back to my family business, and accept that this is something I’ll be doing.”

Going to China, the very first month of the program, demonetization happened in India, and I happened to be in a Bitcoin meetup two days ago. When I was in the meetup, I was like, “Okay, this is all a scam. It’s something not for me. I don’t know whether it’s going to work or not.” Two days later, demonetization happens in India and I was like, “Well, this is something that can actually happen in a country like India, and what impact is it going to have to the economy and the currency aspect?”

That triggered me into the meetup that I was a part of. And I was like, “Okay, this is something worth exploring and I should definitely spend some time on it.” So I started off, in university, and I along with who is currently my Co-Founder, we started a small blockchain association in the university just to get ourselves involved with what’s happening in the ecosystem and also to spread awareness, and also learn what’s happening and how we can kind of leverage from it.

A few months, I was running the association. All these Chinese big players, new VeChain, Binance, etc, were part of our association and we used to talk to them very, very frequently. I was very fortunate to join Binance. So, Binance was in one of our meetups back then, and it was a small company of 15 people and they were looking for a marketing intern. So I joined the company.

And yeah, rest is history, right? One hell of a ride, six months I was there, everything from marketing to small operations, and basically learned everything about crypto through Binance only. And in six months, the company grew from 15 people to 90 people. So I kind of see the growth happening over there and how different is the crypto ecosystem.

Unfortunately, I had to leave Binance because the Chinese government cracked down on exchanges back in ’17. And I kind of made a bold decision whether to be in China or come back to India and explore the ecosystem here, because at that time, the ecosystem was kind of nonexistent. There wasn’t any, I’d say, any project coming out of India. They were small, one or two scams that happened in India, but in general, it was kind of nonexistent.

So I came to India in 2018 and I was just exploring the ecosystem by working very closely with founders. I worked very closely with some of, now one of the best projects in India, including Matic. So I worked very closely with them, not as an employee, but I worked as an investor for few of the companies. And that is how I got myself involved in the Indian ecosystem.

Yeah, it was 20’18, and I was using a few applications, blockchain applications, and I was struggling to use them. I was like, “Okay, if crypto is so revolutionary, it’s going to affect our life in a very positive way in the next few years, and if this is how we’re going to be using it, no one’s going to be using it. And we have to change that.”

That was a starting point of Biconomy, how we can make crypto mainstream, how we can make blockchain applications mainstream, how we can make Web3 mainstream. That was how it all got started and Biconomy got started, along with the Co-Founder. So it’s been over three years we’ve been working on it.

Shripati Acharya 05:40

So you had the ringside view in the very early days of crypto. And I’m just trying to imagine, back in 2018 and 2019 where there’s so much negativity, right? In the sense that, okay, is this really happening, it’s not happening, who are these guys on the lunatic fringe of crypto? So how did you connect with your Co-Founders?

Aniket Jindal 06:00

As I said, Ahmed and I were studying together in the same university. So everything in crypto. We kind of read together from ’16. So Sachin, he’s our CTO and another Co-Founder, I met him in one of the events in India. And he is related to Sandeep from Polygon, so we were close to Sandeep, from the inception, like when Polygon was Polygon. So he introduced us to Sachin.

And that’s how we all got connected. Sachin comes from a technology background and has been working with MakeMyTrip and Samsung, and that was perfect for us. So we were more in the business, in the research side of things, we needed someone who can implement our ideas, and Sachin was there.

And we had kind of the same vision; not talking much about the prices and tokens, we were talking much of the technology side of things and Sachin was also just in for the technology. In fact, I think he doesn’t like to talk anything about pricing, even for BICO as well. So that’s how we all got started, and it’s been a great 3 year journey, and many more are to come.

Shripati Acharya 07:00

So one of the things I just want to point out there. Taking a bold move, I guess, of jumping in and going to Fudan to actually do that MBA was very pivotal to this entire journey because you ended up being in the heart of the ecosystem out there, and of course the time at Binance. So what is, if you can define for our listeners, Biconomy’s mission here, and who are its customers and what are the key value propositions there?

Aniket Jindal 07:30

Yeah. As I said, as we were getting started, it was a problem that we were facing in using blockchain applications. When I say blockchain applications, it’s decentralized applications, it was really difficult to use, and we wanted to make DeFi applications mainstream. So we positioned ourselves as a company that is going to be simplifying Web3 adoption, that is going to be making … Not simplifying, it’s a company that is going to be making Web3 mainstream, and how we are doing it is by targeting the developers. We want end users to use an application without even knowing that it’s a Web3 application, and so it’s a crypto application.

Crypto applications have a lot of bottlenecks from top to bottom. In order to use an application, it might take you three days, honestly, to get used to it, or to get used to a wallet, to get used to private keys, to get used to other intricacies involved. So we want to remove all these complexities and onboard the next billion users into this space. And the way that we are doing it is by targeting the developers. So we are making infrastructure tools for developers to simplify the user experience in the application, and give a Web2 experience in a Web3 application. So, that’s what we’re trying to do.

Shripati Acharya 08:40

So, definitely the next set of developers are going to be Web2-familiar developers, and the more you can actually make it easier to understand the nuances and code on Web3 with those paradigms in place, the faster it’s going to be. So maybe the best way to understand this, Aniket, might be if you could talk to us about a couple of projects which are on Biconomy. Maybe use that as an example and illustrate how it works.

Aniket Jindal 09:10

Yeah, surely. I think it’s a good point you brought up that makes developers want to be web3 developers, who are going to be giving that kind of user experience to mainstream users who are using all these applications. But to begin with, any application gets started with a Web3 mindset, targeting more towards the crypto-savvy users.

And still now we are seeing most of the applications targeting only a particular set of users that are familiar with crypto, and that is where an application kind of finds the right product market fit. Once it gets adopted in the crypto community, people try to make it more mainstream, how you can target the wider audiences.

So in terms of applications, there are many applications, we have different categories of applications using us, there is a DeFi application. This is another one of them that … That’s how Biconomy got started, in terms of getting the right product market fit. So many DeFi applications started using us.

One of the key pain points at that time, when we were starting, was the gas fee. So every transaction in crypto includes a gas cost involved in it. For every translation, you have to pay certain fees. So let’s say you use an application. Let’s say you use Spotify in Web2. And so for every song, you have to pay something, or for every video on YouTube, you have to pay a fees. You won’t have seen millions of users, or in fact billions of users using all this application. In crypto, for every small interaction within an application, you have to pay certain fees.

And this is one of the problems in this space. Gas is the major one that we were trying to solve. Moving forward, other problems including, how do you move assets from one chain to another? There are so many chains coming up. How do you change the RPC code?

So all these intricacies are something that Biconomy is solving. And applications, such as gaming applications, DeFi applications, they wanted end users to have a very slick user experience so that they don’t have to press the confirm button all the time, they don’t have to worry about the gas fees, they don’t have to worry about RPC changes. So this is how Biconomy comes into the play, and we kind of work with applications.

Shripati Acharya 11:05

So just coming on the gas fee, so the gas fee is actually, anytime you want to make any change to the state which you’re maintaining on the blockchain, I guess there’s a gas fee. And it could be for running a transaction, like a smart contract, for transferring tokens, adding tokens, doing any of these changes. So could you just tell a little bit about, how exactly is Biconomy helping reduce it? If you could simplify it for the listener?

Aniket Jindal 11:35

Yeah. So as you rightly mentioned, for every interaction within crypto, you need to pay the gas fees. And application developers, they are very much happy to front that fee to make the user experience better.

Let’s say you’re using an application called ZED RUN, and it’s a gaming application, one of our customers, where you can buy NFTs and you can play some games over there. So without Biconomy, the experience is that you log into the application, you buy Matic from an exchange ,you do KYC, you pay for that Matic into the MetaMask, and you move onto Polygon and then use the application.

And for every interaction you have to pay Matic. So, ZED RUN came to us and they’re like, “Well, this is where they’re kind of losing most of the customers, because these five steps, like having Matic and paying the gas fees is just a very bad experience for anyone using the application.” People want to come to the application, they want to use a game. They don’t have to do all these steps in order to use a game, how we can solve them. And they were like, “We are very much happy to give them Matic, and fund the gas fee so that they can use an application very, very easily.”

So the product we developed has APIs and SDK that can be integrated into the application itself, so that ZED RUN is able to pay for the gas fees. So ZED RUN is fronting, it’s like server costs. Your Netflix never asks you for AWS bill, Spotify doesn’t do that. So it’s like a server cost for any application.

They’re like, “Okay, we’ll fund the gas fee.” And this is going to remove five steps, six steps in order to use an application. And that’s how we integrate it. And they’ve seen, on an average, a 30%, 40% increase in users after Biconomy got integrated. So this is how we come into play with the product.

Then we started building other products as well, “How can we make movement from one chain to another easy?” That was another key pain point the applications were facing. So our mindset has been always towards the user experience, how we can make it as simple as possible.

Shripati Acharya 13:30

And it’s even a little bit more intricate than that. I think, which Biconomy does under the covers, which is, there might also be a timing in terms of optimizing the gas fees. Because the gas fee itself, the cost of gas is not constant, it keeps varying over time.

Aniket Jindal 13:45

Yeah. I think that is the major issue on chain. And that’s why our target customers are not Ethereum customers because even if the application wants to pay for the gas fees, at this current state, it’s not economically sustainable for them because gas fees are super expensive over there. A transaction can cost you up to $100.

So we recommend our customers not to use us on Ethereum, just because it doesn’t make any sense. But our product has been seeing phenomenal adoption on next emerging L1’s, and also EVM chains such as Polygon, such as BAC, such as Avalanche, where gas fees are actually pretty low and application developers are very much able to, and willing to fund the fees. And for Ethereum also it is going to be happening, but at this current stage, it doesn’t make sense.

Shripati Acharya 14:30

Got it. So it brings me to Biconomy’s own token, BICO. What’s the thinking behind that? And we will touch a little bit on token economics later, but can you just walk us through how do you think of it as part of the strategy of Biconomy and how are your users going to benefit from it?

Aniket Jindal 14:50

Yeah. It might be surprising to you, when Biconomy got started, we as Co-Founders, we’re like, “Okay, we’ll never do a token.” We won’t ever think about token, we just build a product. We want to give the best user experience that’s possible, target developers in the most developer-friendly way.

And for almost two years, we never thought of doing a token, or one and a half years, “Okay, build a product, get traction, get really good customers who love you, and then probably think about what we do next.” So we did that. We built a product, we got, right, customer traction. We got top notch applications using us. But everything was happening in a centralized way. Everything was … We were the ones fronting the transactions, we were the ones managing all the backend infrastructure.

And as we grew bigger, this became one of the areas of discussion while we were pitching to our customers, “Okay, this is what services we provide.” It’s like, kind of running a Web3 company and there’s a single point of failure. What if tomorrow, Biconomy shuts down? Or you don’t want to front the transaction. How is the UX going to come into play? And that got us thinking that if we continue to do things in a centralized way, it might not work for a Web3 company because people don’t want to have a single point of redundancy.

So this is how we planned to decentralize our infrastructure, where we can have different stakeholders to be a part of the infrastructure and we can kind of create a network of executors who can relay all these transactions and they can get some fees out of it. So the Biconomy token is actually a stake in the work token where people can be a part of the infrastructure, and whatever the transactions that are happening. They can get some fees out of it.

And also, we have a wider governance play as well, so that major network decisions can be given to a community and they can also become a part of it. So this is how the token journey got started. We did a token sale a few months ago and also got listed on all the major exchanges, including Binance, Coinbase, et cetera.

Shripati Acharya 16:45

That’s fascinating. So your objective of the token was very specific, which you said that we want to have a community of, really, infrastructure providers who are on Biconomy, who are running the Biconomy validator nodes. And so that, even if, for some reason, Biconomy servers were to disappear, the node continues to run. The code continues to run. The dapps which are sitting on top of Biconomy continue to run. That’s actually a very clear objective in terms with which you started.

And this relates to the tokenomics question which I have. Which is, one, how does value accrue to a token? That’s one of the questions which we have when we think about tokens. So how does value accrue to token? And then, after, that would be great to get your thoughts on how anyone should be thinking about … Like, what are the two or three questions you have to ask yourself before you launch into tokens?

Aniket Jindal 17:40

Yeah, I think it’s a very good question, and that is something we always think about internally as well. So, we have a very clear value proposition. The Biconomy model is, let’s say, ignore the decentralized aspect of it. In a centralized way, how we’re kind of working is, we take a percentage fee of every transactions that we are doing. Now, moving into a decentralized aspect where we’ll be having multiple stakeholders, multiple validators running the transactions and relaying the transactions. So the fees are going to be divided for the layers, who are relaying the transactions.

When the Biconomy token comes into play, it kind of adds an incentive mechanism for them to actually run and secure the network. So any validator who wants to run a node, they need to stake a Biconomy token, so they need to have a certain Biconomy token as a part of it. And for whatever translation that they are doing, they get certain fees, and that fees goes to the validators, who are running the transactions.

So the clear value prop is, what are the fees and what goes to go to validators. And validator is something, everyone wants to be a part of it. So people need to buy Biconomy tokens so that they become a part of the network. They have to stake it, and then they kind of get fees out of it. This is how we have thought about the entire token model.

Shripati Acharya 19:00

And say, if I’m a customer, I’m a developer creating a dApp, the payment to Biconomy, also occurs through the token?

Aniket Jindal 19:10

No. So, this is where we don’t want to get into it. That kind of becomes more of a security question. We don’t want our customers to pay us in BICO tokens. They pay us normally. But they can be a part of the network as well, they can run their own layers. That’s what we expect them to do.

So in order to be part of or get premium services, we have made it super easy for them to, in fact, run the relayers and provide a better service for the end customer as well. But in terms of the payment aspect, it’s the normal way, that’s how we’re thinking about it.

Shripati Acharya 19:40

Okay, got it. So really, the demand for BICO tokens really comes from folks who want to run the infrastructure?

Aniket Jindal 19:50

Yeah. And also be a wider governance play as well, people who want to see what’s happening. Because, of course, crypto is all about community, and this is something we tell to everyone who starts a company, that if you don’t have a good community, then probably, the project won’t succeed. Right? It’s all about how you work with the community, how the community gets involved within the network. And we have seen with the likes of Polygon, Solana, what community can do, Ethereum, in fact. So, governance is something that we are kind of very much looking forward.

Shripati Acharya 20:22

So quickly to touch on the community aspects, how did you go about building the community initially? Because that’s like priming the pump, so to speak, for the community. Isn’t that difficult?

Aniket Jindal 20:32

Yeah, it’s a very good question and something initially we struggled, because our product is a very technically-oriented product where we’re targeting only the developers. Had it been a user-facing product, it’s kind of easy because people can use the product and they can just give you feedback. But we were very clear from day one that our customers are always going to be developers. So we kind of established a very developer-centric community. We were very active in hackathons. So all the hackathons happening across the globe, whether we had money or not money, we were trying to be part of all of them, helping developers, getting them part of the community.

And initially, we also offered our services free of cost, so that any developer in the community can use our products and give us feedback. So initially, I’d say for the year, it was entirely developer-focused. But as, being a token company, it was very important for us also to think about the retail users who will be actually buying a token or also using the products of our customers. So we also, post then, started focusing on the retail community side of things.

But having clarity regarding what sort of community you want to build is very important in crypto because people usually think that having 100,000 people on Telegram, Discord, is like, you have made it. But anyone can do it and, definitely, it can get toxic as you scale up.

Shripati Acharya 21:45

Got it. So let me actually move off from Biconomy just a little bit and ask you about the Web3 space in general. So obviously, even a year seems such a long time in Web3. And there’s so much going to happen this year as well, with all the changes in Ethereum and the merges, which are going to happen, a lot is going to change going forward. So as you look at the state of the union today, what are some of the key friction points in Web3 and the key unsolved problems from your vantage point?

Aniket Jindal 22:25

Yeah. I think even right now, as I said earlier, crypto, Web3 applications, decentralised applications, have been only targeting one of the niches, like crypto-savvy users. Like I said, I don’t think so, like your family members might be using Web3, and my family member never get Web3 applications. They’re like, “Okay, how do you use MetaMask? How do you use a Web3 application? They might be using exchanges, but that’s pretty much it. That’s not Web3.

So in terms of making the application more mainstream, still we have a lot of problems. One of them is their interoperability and how to move assets from one exchange to another. It takes ages. I’ll tell you, if you have to move your asset from Ethereum to Polygon, it’s going to take you 30 minutes. Who’s going to wait for 30 minutes to use an application? That is one of the problems that we are trying to solve.

I’ll say privacy is another area of interest people have to work on, because it is important to be very transparent, but it doesn’t solve all the problems. So that is another area that also excites me personally.

Another is, I think wallet is still a big problem. Metamask is one of the biggest market leader of wallet out there, but still, it’s not very user-friendly. I don’t think so, anyone gets MetaMask. It’s the most secure wallet. It’s meant for people who understand crypto. But people who don’t understand crypto, they’re still very important and a big area where new kinds of wallets can emerge, where it can be Web3 at the same time, and also it can be more user-focused.

NFTs is also something very exciting, how brands can actually communicate, or in fact, the creative economy can communicate with the end users. That friction is still there, NFT is solving that. I’ll say last year was a year where a lot of crypto promises were actually in existence, but from this year and the coming few years, this will be making it scalable, making it more mainstream. Last year was like, “Okay, you have proven yourself to a small set of user base, now we have to make it to like a larger user base.” That’s where our focus should be always on.

Shripati Acharya 24:40

Do you also see a change in the person or the users themselves, between the last 18 months and how we see it in 2022?

Aniket Jindal 24:50

Yeah, I think persona and behavior of users, investors, media, everything. When we were starting in ’18, I’ll tell you, no investor wanted to invest in us. No media company wanted to cover what we were trying to do. And in fact, the user base also was fairly limited. It was only a handful of people using all this application and also having a pessimism inside them that it’s going to work or not.

But in the three years, so the innovation in DeFi and the FT space, and other things, in the crypto ecosystem, as the persona has kind of taken a 180-degree pivot. I’ll say from everyone. There’s no shortage of capital in the market, like all VCs want to be involved in the Web3 ecosystem. Media is covering all the blockchain projects, and also we’ve seen new users coming up. In fact, developers who want to be in crypto, post-college. Back then, no one wanted to work for a crypto company. They’re like, “Okay, it’s not sustainable, where they probably should join a normal startup or join an MNC.” Now people, developers are actually very much willing to work with a crypto company from the inception. So it has taken a 180-degree pivot, I would say, in the last few years.

Shripati Acharya 26:00

Absolutely, it’s been a terrific journey. So let me ask you, as you look at Web2 startups and Web3 startups and you look at entrepreneurs today, I mean, a lot of exciting talent in India and folks trying to start companies. How would you look at, what’s the dos and donts of running a Web3 company, which is different than that of a Web2 startup?

Aniket Jindal 26:30

Yeah, it’s a very good question, and I’m seeing a lot of Web2 players entering the space as well. And it’s very much needed, because Web3 founders are very much technical-oriented. They’re not very good product managers. But from the Web2 space, what I’ve seen is people build excellent products and they’re more focused on the masses.

But in Web3, as they enter, the mindset shift needs to change. Importance should be given to the community, a lot, because the community needs to be well-incentivized to be part of the network. And this is an area where it works differently in Web2, because community is a big aspect over there. But incentivization is just something that we focus a lot on, in Web3, while building the company.

Second is the openness. All the Web3 founders are very much openly talking about the roadmap, about the network and about the products with the community on Discord. So I’m very much actively interacting with all the people in the retail side of things, even the developer side of things and brainstorming ideas.

And we have a massive open-source kind of a sandbox involvement where people can come and play on the network. That is something that doesn’t happen that much in a Web2 kind of ecosystem. I’ll say Web3 companies are also more focused on the token aspect, the reward for stakeholders. It’s different because, in Web2, it’s kind of you have corporate structure, you have a board and stuff. But then you come to Web3, you need to move towards a DAO, you need to have different stakeholders as part of the network. And that is very important for decentralisation.

So these are two, three main areas. And of course the foundation and the fundamentals remain the same. A lot of people enter Web3 and they always think about, “Okay, Web3 is all about token, right? You have to create a token.” But that is the last thing you should think of. You should think okay, what is Web3 giving me? What is decentralization giving you, and what sort of new areas you can unlock, make a switch or make some part of the company to Web3. All these are important areas where every founder needs to think, while entering Web3 position.

Shripati Acharya 28:30

That’s a great answer, Aniket. In one sense, you need to think about all the things which you need to do in Web2; you need to think about product, you need to think about value proposition, you need to think about who your customer is. But some of the things that you don’t really think about in the beginning of a company in Web2, you need to actually account for and plan for in Web3, I hear you say.

You need to think about who the community is, what is the governance model, what is the incentivization model, whether or not you need the token, how the value’s going to accrue to the token, how is the distribution going to occur? And all of these things need to sort of get fast-forwarded and thought about right in the beginning, because they’re core to the strategy and the product itself. It’s not something which you add on as a marketing element on top of your product later.

Aniket Jindal 29:10

Yeah, totally. I think just slightly, I would add into it is that community becomes part of the product in Web3 that is not very much necessarily in Web2. As you said, it’s more of a marketing element. But the fundamentals remain the same. And then token is one of the ways where you can get the community more involved and get them as part of the network.

I’ll give you an example of Dolce & Gabbana, where, they’re a normal traditional family office running for years now. One of the problems was how they can interact with the customers and create that kind of brand awareness with the premium customers. And NFTs kind of solved it for them. They launched very premium NFTs, on, of course, they were using Biconomy as well. They got a sense of … I mean, they could’ve done it in the normal Web2 way as well. But in this way, they could get a sense of people who were going to be a part of the brand for a very long time, because people have been holding their NFTs. And anyone in the world can be a part of it. That might have been different in a normal scenario.

So I’ll say community is the key aspect when anyone comes to Web3 and there are different ways to think about it. NFTs can be one where brands can work, or get well-connected with the fans or the prime users. Then having the right sort of incentive mechanisms and involving mechanisms for community, because any community member right now who has been active and who has decent stakes, can be part of the governance model.

It never happens in Web2. He can be part of value accrual. He can run validated notes. He can also get some share of profit if he runs part of the network. So getting the community involved is very important in Web3 and something we always think about.

Shripati Acharya 31:00

That’s a great answer, Aniket. So, thank you for your time today. And for our listeners, if they want to know about Biconomy and want to get in touch with you, what’s the best Twitter or Discord handles they could follow?

Aniket Jindal 31:10

Yeah, I’m definitely, I think, mostly active on Twitter and Telegram. So, Aniket Jindal, also on LInkedIn], is sort of available 24/7 and I’m happy to jam over different ideas and how Web3 or Biconomy can solve problems for you.

Shripati Acharya 31:30

Well, thanks again, Aniket, and it was an absolute pleasure talking to you and learning more about Biconomy.

Aniket Jindal 31:35

Thanks a lot for having me.

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